The Heels in the Hierarchy Podcast

What does a man learn when the most influential people in his life have always been women?
SJ and Pegsy welcome Alan to Heels in the Hierarchy - a man who grew up in a strong female household, has spent his professional life working alongside and managing predominantly female teams, and now works in one of the most emotionally demanding fields there is: bereavement and therapeutic support.
This isn't an episode about asking a man what women should do differently. It's about something far more interesting - what happens when a man has genuinely paid attention. To the women who raised him. To the colleagues who challenged him. To the people who have sat with him through grief. And to the assumptions he's had to quietly unlearn along the way.
Warm, honest, occasionally challenging, and full of practical insight - this is a conversation the Heels in the Hierarchy audience has been asking for.
In this episode:
What growing up surrounded by strong women taught Alan about being a man — and what his sisters specifically taught him that he couldn't have learned anywhere else
What "strong woman" actually means to him - and whether the phrase itself is sometimes part of the problem
What men consistently misunderstand about women at work - and what women sometimes misunderstand about men
What Alan has learned from managing predominantly female teams - on psychological safety, communication, and recognising when someone is struggling
Why some men find it almost impossible to ask for help - and what that costs them
What grief does when it follows someone through the office door — and what good and bad employer responses actually look like
The three things women have taught Alan that have shaped who he is
And what he thinks men can offer women in return - without it becoming a lecture
Alan's practical takeaways include:
What every manager should understand about grief
What every person should know about asking for help
What he personally had to unlearn - and why that matters
We close with a question worth sitting with:
After a lifetime shaped by strong women - what does strength actually mean now?
If there's a man in your life who needs to hear this - share it with him today.
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"A woman's fury holds lifetimes of wisdom." — Tracee Ellis Ross
So why are we still being told to calm down?
In this episode SJ and Pegsy explore one of the most loaded words in a woman's emotional vocabulary — fury — and what happens when we stop pathologising it and start listening to it instead.
Drawing on Tracee Ellis Ross's extraordinary TED talk, they unpack the micro-aggressive language around women's anger, the double standard that sees men called passionate and women called hysterical, and the accumulated weight of being dismissed, disrespected, and unheard — until one moment becomes the final straw for something that has been building for years.
This is not an episode about fixing anger. It's about understanding it.
In this episode:
Tracee Ellis Ross on fury as information — and why that reframe changes everything
Micro-aggressive language around women's anger — and how it shows up in everyday professional life
Victim blaming, mansplaining, and why the phrase "mansplaining" has become uncomfortably normalised
The Barbie moment that said what many women couldn't — America Ferrera's monologue and why it landed so hard
How women are raised to make themselves smaller — and then told to own the room
The manosphere, algorithmic grievance, and why the answer isn't to blame feminism
Male allies and advocates — what genuine allyship looks like, and why men challenging men matters
The connection to the Likeability Dilemma — revisiting an earlier conversation through a sharper lens
And we close with five questions worth sitting with:
What is your anger trying to tell you?
Where have you been making yourself smaller to remain likeable?
What conversation have you been postponing?
If you are a leader — are the women around you feeling safe enough to tell you when something is wrong before they get furious?
Could you set yourself a goal to understand the history of your fury — investigate it, and decide with confidence what you want to do with it?
This episode is for every woman who has ever been told her response is the problem.And for every man who wants to understand why that matters.
☕ Support us on Buy Me a Coffee🎧 Listen & subscribe: https://heelsinthehierarchy.podbean.com/▶️ Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HeelsintheHierarchy
Links mentioned in this episode:Tracee Ellis Ross — "A Woman's Fury Holds Lifetimes of Wisdom" TED TalkThe Etymology of Hysteria — Useless EtymologyHysteria: A Brief History — ScienceDirectHeels in the Hierarchy — The Likeability Dilemma Episode
#HeelsInTheHierarchy #WomensAnger #TraceeEllisRoss #FuryIsWisdom #WomenInLeadership #MicroAggressions #Hysteria #Mansplaining #WomenAtWork #PodcastForWomen

You know their names. You know their achievements. But do you know what happened in between?
SJ and Pegsy are back — and this week they're doing something a little different.
Rather than a highlights reel in the latest of our looks at Inspirational Women, this episode goes behind the polished, press-ready versions of four extraordinary women — Reese Witherspoon, Maya Jama, Brené Brown, and Michelle Obama — and into the messy, uncertain, often uncomfortable middle ground that actually shaped who they became.
Because leadership isn't built in the spotlight. It's built in the struggle before anyone was watching.
What connects these four women isn't fame. It's something far more interesting — the gap between how the world saw them and how they actually felt inside. The quiet, persistent friction of not quite fitting the version of themselves that existed in other people's minds. And the series of small, often unglamorous decisions to choose themselves anyway.
In this episode:
How Reese Witherspoon's industry frustration became Hello Sunshine — and what that shift from "how do I succeed in this system" to "what if I build something different" means for anyone feeling overlooked right now
Why Maya Jama's confidence isn't the starting point — and what it's actually survived
The thing Brené Brown's research changed before it changed anyone else — and why the gap between knowing something and living it is one of the most human experiences there is
Michelle Obama on being defined by someone else's achievements — and why Becoming resonated with so many women across so many different circumstances
The pattern all four share — and the question it raises about your own messy middle
And we close with the one question worth sitting with today:
Where in your life right now is there a gap between how the world sees you and who you actually are?
You don't have to answer it today. You just have to be honest enough to ask it.
Someone in your life needs to hear this one. Share it.
☕ Support us on Buy Me a Coffee🎧 Listen & subscribe: https://heelsinthehierarchy.podbean.com/▶️ Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HeelsintheHierarchy
Links mentioned in this episode:
Reese WitherspoonHello Sunshine — About Us: The mission behind the company Reese builtForbes — 5 Leadership Lessons from Hello SunshineBusiness Upturn — Reese Witherspoon on struggling to keep Hello Sunshine afloat in its early days
Maya JamaGrazia — Maya Jama on imposter syndrome, confidence, and showing up anyway
Brené BrownTED Blog — Being vulnerable about vulnerability: Q&A with Brené BrownOn Being — Brené Brown: The Courage to Be VulnerableOprah.com — The Wholehearted Life: Oprah talks to Brené Brown
Michelle ObamaMichelle Obama's official site and Becoming
#HeelsInTheHierarchy #MessyMiddle #WomenInLeadership #ReeseWitherspoon #BrenéBrown #MichelleObama #MayaJama #AuthenticLeadership #ImposterSyndrome #PodcastForWomen

SJ and Pegsy welcome you back to Heels in the Hierarchy - and this week SJ sits down with someone whose career story genuinely stopped us in our tracks.
She welcomes Debbie - a woman who built a successful, people-focused career in beauty and medical sales, and then made one of the most unexpected pivots you'll hear about on this podcast: into a technical, commercial, male-dominated manufacturing environment.
"I've built confidence in one world — and suddenly none of it seemed to apply anymore."
That's where this conversation begins. And it might be where you are right now too.  
Different language. Different culture. Different rules. And COVID hitting just as she was trying to find her feet, derailing the hands-on training she desperately needed.
What unfolds is one of the most honest conversations we've had about what identity and confidence actually feel like when you step into a space that wasn't built with you in mind — and what it takes not just to survive it, but to stay, grow, and discover strengths you didn't know you had.
In this episode:
That first moment of thinking "I don't belong here" — and what Debbie did with it
How COVID complicated an already steep learning curve in a hands-on industry
Imposter syndrome in its rawest form — and the internal work of navigating it
Why asking for help is harder than it sounds in a culture that doesn't always model it
The relational and people skills that technical environments quietly need — and rarely acknowledge
What Debbie wishes she'd known before making the leap — and what she'd tell anyone out of their depth right now
If you've ever walked into a room and wondered whether you belonged there — this one's for you.
And if you know someone standing at the edge of a big career change, send this to them today.
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#HeelsInTheHierarchy #WomenInManufacturing #CareerPivot #ImposterSyndrome #WomenInLeadership #MaleDominatedIndustry #CareerChange #Resilience #PodcastForWomen #WomenAtWork

Everyone talks about the glass ceiling. SJ and Pegsy ask a more interesting question: is it always someone else's doing?
In this episode SJ and Pegsy have an honest, nuanced conversation about career progression — the real structural barriers women face, and the ones we sometimes build for ourselves. Because quite often, it's both happening at the same time.
From crowded leadership tiers and the difference between a mentor and a sponsor, to the confidence gap, the broken promises of "great progression opportunities," and the invisible emotional weight women carry around ambition — this is the glass ceiling conversation that goes beyond the headlines.
And crucially: it ends with practical routes forward. Not just what's in the way, but how to find the elevator when the ceiling won't budge.
In this episode:
Why sometimes the barrier is structural — and sometimes it's a traffic jam, not a glass ceiling
The critical difference between a mentor and a sponsor — and why it matters for your career
The confidence gap: why women wait to feel ready when others just go for it
Being sold "potential" rather than a pathway — and the interview questions that expose the difference
How glass ceilings look different across sectors — and why that nuance matters
Practical steps: owning your ambition, seeking sponsors, and testing limits before assuming they're fixed
Have you hit a genuine glass ceiling — or looked back and realised you'd underestimated yourself? We'd love to hear from you.
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#HeelsInTheHierarchy #GlassCeiling #WomenInLeadership #CareerProgression #ConfidenceGap #MentorVsSponsor #WomenAtWork #AuthenticLeadership #PodcastForWomen #CareerDevelopment

Some of the best management conversations don't happen in a meeting room. They happen on a walk.
In this episode SJ and Pegsy explore the real evidence behind walking meetings — why movement boosts creativity, reduces fatigue, and quietly shifts the power dynamic in ways that make difficult conversations easier and honest ones more likely.
Drawing on research-backed insights and their own expertise in wellbeing and HR, they get practical about when walking meetings genuinely work best — appraisals, onboarding new starters, early performance conversations — and when they don't. Crucially, they also tackle accessibility, because any wellbeing initiative that excludes people isn't really a wellbeing initiative at all.
In this episode:
Why walking boosts creative thinking and reduces cognitive fatigue
How side-by-side movement softens power dynamics in management conversations
The management moments where walking meetings work best
Accessibility considerations every manager needs to think about
How small, consistent actions model a genuine wellbeing culture
Try it once this week — with one person, one conversation. See what comes up that wouldn't have at a desk.
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She failed the exams that were meant to define her future. It turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to her career.
In this episode SJ speak with Emmy, a payments product manager, about a journey that didn't start where she expected — or wanted — it to. Failing anatomy exams meant letting go of a lifelong plan to become a doctor, and facing a version of failure that felt deeply personal. What followed was a rebuild: new direction, new identity, and ultimately, a career and sense of fulfilment she couldn't have planned for.
This is a story about what failure actually teaches us, if we let it — and how the lowest point can end up being the turning point.
In this episode:
Emmy's path from a failed medical ambition to a thriving FinTech career
Reframing failure as a turning point, not an ending
The role mentors played in helping her find a new direction
Transferable skills — and learning to recognise your own value
Redefining success on her own terms, beyond job titles
Ever turned a failure into your biggest win? This episode will resonate.
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A career break isn't a gap. It's a chapter — and it's time the workplace started reading it that way.
In this episode SJ and Pegsy explore Carol Fishman Cohen's influential TED Talk on "relaunchers" — women returning to work after stepping away for caregiving, health, or simply a different season of life. Rather than treating that time as something to explain away, this episode reframes it as exactly what it is: an intentional restart, not an ending.
They dig into why confidence often takes the biggest hit during a break, how outdated recruitment practices quietly penalise relaunchers, and the transferable skills — resilience, perspective, problem-solving — that so often go unrecognised on a CV. And crucially, they offer practical, actionable steps for both employers and candidates to make re-entry genuinely successful, not just survivable.
In this episode:
Carol Fishman Cohen's "relauncher" framework and why language matters
Why confidence dips during a break — and how to rebuild it
How recruitment processes can unintentionally exclude returners
The transferable skills career breaks actually build
Practical steps employers can take to support successful re-entry
Know someone relaunching their career? This episode is for them — and for the manager hiring them.
☕ Support us on Buy Me a Coffee🎧 Listen & subscribe: https://heelsinthehierarchy.podbean.com/▶️ Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HeelsintheHierarchy
#HeelsInTheHierarchy #CareerBreak #Relauncher #ReturnToWork #CareerRestart #WomenInLeadership #RecruitmentBias #TransferableSkills #PodcastForWomen #WorkplaceCultureLinks mentioned in this episode:Carol Fishman Cohen — "How to Get Back to Work After a Career Break" (TED Talk)

This episode explores the growing, often-hidden impact of elder care on women in the workforce — from 600 people quitting daily in the UK to the 1.4 million ‘sandwich carers’ balancing children, careers and aging relatives.
Hosts SJ and Pegsy discuss the emotional toll, anticipatory grief, financial pressures, workplace stigma and practical resources, and offer compassionate advice for both carers and managers on how to navigate and support this major life transition.
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/
https://www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/
https://www.nhs.uk/social-care-and-support/help-from-social-services-and-charities/getting-a-needs-assessment/
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The difference between an ordeal and an adventure is your attitude. This episode is pure adventure.
To celebrate one year of Heels in the Hierarchy, SJ and Pegsy are throwing open the outtakes reel — the bloopers, the behind-the-scenes moments, and the bits that didn't quite make the cut. But amid the laughter there's something genuinely valuable here too: honest conversation about vulnerability, neurodiversity, feedback, and the wonderfully messy human side of putting yourself out there.
If you've ever wondered what goes on when the recording light is on and everything goes slightly sideways — this one's for you.
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